Leeds United vs Everton Player Ratings - Awful game from Beto & Co | OneFootball

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The image of David Moyes’s hands on his head at the stroke of half-time was an appropriate metaphor for their season opener against Leeds United at Elland Road.

In the first half, the Toffees failed to get out of their own half and retreated into a shell as Leeds dictated proceedings. A much-improved performance in the second half counted for nothing, as a harsh penalty call ultimately decided the fate of Everton's season-opener in Yorkshire.

With Jarrad Branthwaite and Vitalii Mykolenko out of contention, Moyes was forced to play James Garner at left-back. Most of the first half was played in Everton’s half, with the Blues having only one touch in the opposition penalty area for the first 45 minutes.

Daniel Farke set up the Leeds press high in the first half and the onus was on James Tarkowski and Jordan Pickford to find Beto with their long balls, but such attempts hardly proved successful. Jake O’Brien and Tim Iroegbunam were kept busy by Wilfriend Gnonto and Gabriel Gudmundssoen while Garner had more success on his flank up against Dan James.

After a dispiriting first half, the game opened up more in the second 45 minutes. Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall dropped in to help Gueye shield the defensive line while Iroegbunam pushed forward. Leeds players also looked tired after an intense first half which allowed the Blues to take up dangerous positions in the midfield and the final third.

Jack Grealish made his debut for Everton after coming off the bench in the 75th minute and immediately took up the slot on the left flank, pushing Iliman Ndiaye to the opposite flank instead.

Charly Alcaraz, now playing in midfield after the Grealish substitution, slipped while Everton were trying to build from the back, inviting Leeds to create chances close to the box. Tarkowski tried to put his body in the way of Anton Stach’s powerful shot, but despite having his arm in a natural position, the referee decided to award the hosts a penalty for handball.

Lukas Nmecha scored from 12 yards with his first kick of the game six minutes before the 90th minute and that was that.  Lack of depth on the bench also hurt the side here as Moyes brought on only two players in the second half, with Thierno Barry coming on just four minutes before the end.

Player ratings for Everton against Leeds United:

Jordan Pickford - 5

Made a big save off Joel Piroe inside the first five minutes and thwarted an attempt off Anton Stach towards the end. He looked shaky while coming out to collect crosses and corners in the first half.

Jake O’Brien - 5

Struggled to deal with the pace of Gnonto in the first half and failed to progress the play. Got better in the second half.

James Tarkowski - 5

Failed to deal with a ball into the path of Joel Piroe early on. Passing out from the back was poor in the first half. While he had a better second 45 and made a few interceptions high up the pitch, the Everton captain was wrongly adjudged to have handled the ball, leading to a penalty. Almost redeemed himself at the end, but his glancing header looped over the bar

Michael Keane - 5

Sloppy and slow to react defensively on a few occasions. Failed to deal with the Leeds United pressure and kept playing the ball to Tarkowski to bail them out, leading to Everton's build-up struggles in the first-half.

James Garner - 6

Garner did reasonably well despite playing out of position. He kept Dan James quiet and provided good defensive cover.

Idrissa Gana Gueye - 5

Uncharacteristically bad game from Idrissa Gueye, who looked more lively off the ball than on it. Made a few interceptions but failed to impose himself in the middle of the park.

Tim Iroegbunam (off at 70’) - 4

Iroegbunam spent most of the first half trying to help O’Brien deal with Gnonto and Gudmondsson. Didn’t have a lot of influence on the game. He went into the referee’s book after a sloppy challenge on Ethan Ampadu before getting replaced by Grealish after 70 minutes.

Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall - 5

Led the press for Everton in the first half along with Beto and besides a few composed touches here and there, failed to have a major impact. Dropped deeper to support Gueye in the second half, which allowed the Blues to push up more.

Charly Alcaraz (off at 86’) - 4

Charly Alcaraz is just not suitable playing on the right flank which often limits his game, and tonight was no different. He had the team’s first shot on target but was also guilty of making a few wayward touches and passes, most notably the slip while playing out from the back, which eventually led to the penalty call.

Beto (CF) - 2

Awful game from the Everton striker who was invisible for the entire 90 minutes at Elland Road. Despite a plethora of long passes sprayed out towards him, Beto failed to either win the ball or hold it or link up with the rest of his teammates, or get into dangerous positions.

The fact that Beto finished the game with just one touch inside the opposition box tells you all you need to know. The only one to put in a more tragic shift than Everton's number 9 tonight was Chris Kavanagh while officiating the game.

Iliman Ndiaye (LW) - 6

Ndiaye showed little moments of magic to relieve the pressure off his side, but did not get the ball in the danger areas to create chances at the opposition goal.

Subs

Jack Grealish (on for Iroegbunam at 70’) - 6

Immediately slotted into the left flank, forcing Ndiaye on the opposite right flank. In his Everton debut, the marquee summer signing held the ball well, had a couple of great take-ons and showed positive signs.

Thierno Barry (on for Alcaraz at 86’): N/A

Barely had any time to influence the game.

Reader Comments (172)

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Bobby Mallon 1 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:03:39

That was the worst game of the weekend. Totally on Moyes who I think should be sacked. Oh and I think the friedkins will do just that if we lose to Brighton

Duncan McDine 2 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:06:43

I can't argue with those player ratings. Perhaps Gana was even less than a 5?

It's an all too familiar feeling. I'm very concerned that things could get ugly in a hurry if the team continue to perform like that.

David West 3 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:12:53

Are those ratings -4, -5 ect?Too high !!!

Ray Jacques 4 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:14:45

If Barry even as a raw recruit cannot get a game before Beto even at this time in his career then he must be a dud.

Bob Boote 5 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:21:52

We just need a new right winger….😬

Jimmy Carr 6 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:22:17

One of Barry's first touches was to pick up the ball, back to goal, and lay it off to a teammate. For that alone he should start ahead of Beto.

Mark Taylor 7 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:23:09

I said before this that playing the relegation favourites would be a yardstick. Personally I thought some of this forum were kidding themselves thinking we could push for top half. The squad is all over the place.

Our performance was truly dire, one of the worst I've ever seen. Certainly the worst first half I've even seen (55 plus years of watching). We have no pace, hardly any guile, no real goal threat, no right side attacking threat, players playing out of position, zero creativity in midfield. God help us against Brighton. Dire, dire, dire

Kevin Molloy 8 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:23:23

KDH I thought was a big disappointment tonight, under the radar from the other things that went wrong. I thought the defence on the whole acquitted themselves well, but the midfield and attack, deary me. That could be though cos we've had to play deep all game, and so it was so much harder to get up the pitch. Jarrad is just vital to the way we play.

Justin Doone 9 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:25:44

Everton were awful, we didn't deserve to win the game and if Leeds would have scored one of their first half chances and won I could not complain about the score.Looking at that, we have had no preseason, no meet and greet and no warm up. That's how lost, limp and lathargic we were. Game plan, ha, what's one of them?

But to lose to that, an awful decision by a referee who didn't see it and var who didn't over turn it. Atrocious!

If that is a penalty within the laws of the game then defenders would need to start chopping off arms not to give away penalties.I no longer pretend to know the rules apart from if they can find a way to hurt Everton, they do.Simplify it, ball to arm = penalty, no matter what. We will all have to accept it.As for our next game, my fears are about to become reality. 0-3 Brighton.

Geoff Cadman 10 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:29:42

Mark Chelsea away season before last.

Josh Horne 11 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:32:58

Moyes' match rating?

Before the match Neville referred to Moyes as Everton's star player. Carragher nodding away.

Was he coming out with this shit when he was ruining Utd?

Neil Lawson 12 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:35:42

I'm sorry, but those player ratings are laughable. A poor display by an unbalanced 11 required to play in a specific way. There was no " out" because of the manner in which our midfield were set up and because tonight, Beto could not have held up anything, certainly not a ball.Tarkowski and Keane were solid in what they had to do. O'Brien too and worked hard to make progress. Gana was hardly outstanding but by no means a dud. Pickford 5 ? Apart from missing one cross and a couple of poor kicks, was he really that poor ?If half of the team are underperforming is it fair to be critical of those who are at least doing their best to make a decent fist of it.The performance was poor, especially in the first half. But the team selection and tactics created so many avoidable issues and many, but not all, of the players failed miserably to adjust and to step up to the plate.

Rob Dolby 13 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:36:34

I know I shouldn't bite and it's all about opinions but Harry Kane would look shite if he has to run and challenge for percentage balls all match nevermind Beto.

The worse of a bad bunch in my opinion were Ndiaye, Hall and Alcaraz. They provided no physical presence, no support for the defenders and no support for the attackers. The 3 of them where shite.

O'Brien didn't struggle against gnonto, far from it. Likewise Garner with James.

We defended well, Gana and Tim put the hard work in defensively.

We got out fought and relied on the fence yet again to bale us out.

Pickford 6 not much to doObrien 6 did well defensively but nothing going forwardGarner 7 kept James quiet and tried to play forwardTarkowski 6 Other than the pen a solid gameKeane 6 solid game Gana 6 usual destroyer Tim 6 defensively strongHall 4 too light weightAlcaraz 4 had our only shot on goal and an assist for their pen!Ndiaye 4 totally ineffective Beto 5 Tried hard but had absolutely no service.

Mark Taylor 14 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:41:59

Geoff 10The difference is Chelsea away is a lot tougher, or should be, than relegation favourites away.

They were basically much better than us, even though they looked below EPL quality. What is worrying is what does that make us? Brighton may be about to tell us.

Andy McNabb 15 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:45:27

I agree, Mark Taylor. I haven't even seen the game yet and if anyone actually understood the hand-ball rule, this would be a different discussion.

It sounds like a poor performance overall but to give Pickford a 5 when he only conceded a non-existent penalty is very harsh.

Shaun McGough 16 Posted 18/08/2025 at 23:48:50

oh dear bobby@1 TFG group have been nothing short in this window with two weeks to go but appalling, Moyes has nothing to do with recruitment in new structure, TFG have had more than enough time to prepare for what needs addressing in the squad (not starting 11 wich we barely have)but this is what happens in a multi-club owned arrangement wich is exactly what we don’t need, we let a depleted squad let 6/7 players go at the end of last season how we are ran not managed mate, WHAT HAVE TFG BROUGHT TO THE TABLE, support the boys and manager,TFG I don’t think are enough to carry us forward but they will make money out of purchasing us, one game in but I agree beto wont cut it thread

Geoff Cadman 17 Posted 18/08/2025 at 00:00:46

Mark that one was off the top of my head. I know Chelsea played well that night but we were still awful and there have been far too many similar performances especially over the last 30 years. I am sure there was far worse under Fat Sam Tottenham and Arsenal away spring to mind, the RS at home when they rested half the team.

Jim Bennings 18 Posted 19/08/2025 at 00:09:03

All of them were dreadful in truth.The defence wasn't too bad but they weren't great either.

One team wanted to win and one team were clueless.

I still can't believe we have wasted a summer not signing a proper full back with a right foot and we are actually starting the season with a striker who for most of last season played second fiddle to the man who wouldn't sign a contract and we all wanted gone.

Barry isn't ready? Well then we need another striker don't we?

Beto people may say he didn't get service but watch his game, everything bounces off him, it's a strikers duty to hold that ball up and alleviate pressure by winning free kicks or bringing teammates higher up the pitch, he can't do that, he's not technically accomplished enough.

The Friedkin Group are underperforming so far in my opinion.

We've wasted too much time this summer on transfers that they won't meet valuations of and not pursued the areas we desperately need.

We've still got absolutely zero pace in this side.

Dave Lynch 19 Posted 18/08/2025 at 00:14:38

I'm not having that it's TFG's fault.We may have been short of a few players but had enough in that squad to play football at a much higher level than that pile of shite.We never had a shot on goal until well into the 2nd half...let that sink in, against a team tipped to go down.That was down to Moyes and his abysmal tactics and team selection, let's be honest here...he's noted for it and every club he's ever been at (barring us first time round) the fans couldn't wait to see the back of him.We could buy players in the positions we need but I'll bet you a pound to a pinch of shit he'll bench them to show his authority.He was what we needed last season imo but not what we need now.

Jimmy Carr 20 Posted 19/08/2025 at 00:17:56

I think we need a right back more than we need a right sided attacker based on tonight's game. At least we have players who can cover the right side in attack. O'Brien is just not a right back, he can't overlap, stretch the game, cross effectively etc., he's a centre back shoehorned in. Seamus is no longer fit and Moyes thinks Patterson isn't up to it, therefore we need a specialist player in that position. Can't believe we haven't identified one yet. Moyes is right to be narked about it.

Jim Bennings 21 Posted 19/08/2025 at 00:22:11

Moyes has made it quite clear to the owners that they need players bringing in, so I'd say it is on TFG this particular one.

How we can start the season with James Garner left back is beyond reasoning.Ok Mykolenko is injured but that may well happen again often as the season progresses.Back up plan?

It's easy to say sack Moyes in two weeks, and bring who in?

Can't see any reasonable name joining us, would Oliver Glasner leave Palace? I doubt it.

Craig Scott 22 Posted 19/08/2025 at 00:44:13

A dire performance for sure.

I think a fundamental problem is the lack of pace and fragility of Keane at the back. Our defense sits very deep to compensate for him, and our midfield consequently plays deeper as well which invites the opposition to press and dispossess us. We inevitably end up playing everyone back and simply chase the opposition around our own half.

I know everyone on here loves Gana, but he exasperates me. Four out of five of his passes are always backwards, and usually back to the same player. He occasionally delivers a useful ball forward and I wonder why he doesn't back himself to drive forward more often, although his control isn't great and his shooting woeful. But Iroegbunam was gash tonight and these two players are the substance of our midfield who we need to boss the game. We'll only be chasing the opposition in most games unless we can get better midfield generals.

Ndiaye tried hard and looks to create something most times, but we were trying to create from far too deep. I'm not a fan of Beto but I actually don't blame him for our performance tonight. But maybe why we keep stopping our attacks from midfield (and passing it backwards all the time) is because there isn't anything up front to aim for?

Dave Lynch 23 Posted 19/08/2025 at 01:21:25

Craig@22.The problem is imo is that Moyes is a relic with regards modern football.Spanish football was beyond his capabilities, WHU fans despite the trophy he won wanted him gone, not that I think Potter is an upgrade tbf, he took Sunderland down, Utd fans hated his style of play and hounded him out also. People on here will say I'm a Moyes hater, but...his record speaks for itself.

Craig Scott 24 Posted 19/08/2025 at 01:45:28

Dave @ 22. Moyes has to manage with what he's got, although I don't understand his starting selections and substitutions a lot of the time.

But he's still got a fair few players who lack genuine quality, and consequently confidence, when on the ball. So, it's his job to organise formations and energetic pass and move patterns to create more space and time for his midfielders to pick an attacking pass. But that's not happening.

Too often our midfield is static and slow and all too often we stop and pass backwards to defenders who then pass it around a bit and then back to Pickford. It really is tedious and boring.

It's up to the manager to infuse some energy and tempo to the players and their formations, but I've noticed over the years that a lot of our new players start off with lots of energy and purpose, but they too inevitably slip into the boring Everton style of backwards passing after a while.

Maybe its the ongoing lack of pace and threat up front that has plagued us.

Kieran Kinsella 25 Posted 19/08/2025 at 01:49:28

Neil

Makes me wonder if Anjush watched the game. Mostly neutral scores but then whipping boy Beto a 2? ToffeeWeb is falling to the level of the Red Echo with this kind of “article”

Jamie Sweet 26 Posted 19/08/2025 at 01:51:30

When you look at the team sheet, and everyone says they haven't a clue what formation we're playing or who is playing where, you just know it's going to be absolute shite.

And so it proved to be.

Let's get back to basics and at least make sure we can put round pegs in round holes! Over to the recruitment team...

Paul Ward 27 Posted 19/08/2025 at 03:23:01

Irrespective of the penalty that wasn't, Moyes should take full responsibility for such a negative display.I'm inclined to agree with Dave Lynch #23 about Moyes, he has always feared away games or better teams. Against a very poor Leeds team, not one goal attempt in the first half. Beto may not be great, but have you ever seen such an isolated CF.? Once again our great away fans travel and pay to watch shit that is no better than the previous seasons.

Bill Gienapp 28 Posted 19/08/2025 at 03:54:34

How about a rating of 0 for Moyes? Terrible team selection, terrible setup, doesn't bother to make a sub until the 75th minute. Of course he was too much of a gutless coward to start Grealish. Remember when Ancelotti signed James, Allan, and Doucoure days before the season opener, put them straight into the starting XI, and we proceeded to dominate Spurs? It's too bad Moyes turned 60 and we're still waiting for his balls to actually drop. Too scared to play Barry, too scared to even put Aznou on the bench. Couldn't wait for the final whistle so he could jump straight to the moping and whining. Same old loser mentality.

Stu Gre 30 Posted 19/08/2025 at 06:12:51

I think you're being generous there Bill ;)

Moyes 2.0 is the same scared ditherer he always has been.

John Hall 31 Posted 19/08/2025 at 06:14:30

So poor last night. Midfield was atrocious. Never been one to knock Davey but he was responsible for what was a shit show.

We need to get the cheque book out and get some power up front and in the wide areas. Why have we signed a kid who is as rough as they come and then start Beto up front on his own with no service and no support?

No full backs at all other than a center half filling in at right back and having to use Keane in a low block non attacking mode as he has no pace.

Optimism has already started to fade. A new ground won't keep us in the PL. Only decent players will do so, but we don't seem to have many of them right now.

We have now appointed a championship level recruiting team and look to be paying the price.

Kunal Desai 32 Posted 19/08/2025 at 06:28:56

Am I right in thinking that Moyes signed an 18 month deal with the option of a further 12 months?

If that is the case, he'll have to do much better than yesterday if he's to stay for a further 12 months, equally he could turn around and say to TFG, thanks very much but i'm not working with this recruitment team and setup.

Will be an interesting to see how this pans out.

Rob Hooton 33 Posted 19/08/2025 at 06:41:01

The first half was one of the worst halves of football you will ever see, from an Everton perspective. We looked interested for about 15 minutes of the second but then were terrible again.

No shape, no plan, no style. I’m very concerned by that and fear another long and miserable season, hope we improve fast and get some decent signings in or it will be very ugly.

How depressing.

Gavin Johnson 34 Posted 19/08/2025 at 06:43:29

Last night made me even more angry that we are yet to sign a decent right winger.

Ste Stannard 35 Posted 19/08/2025 at 06:49:24

Not many good performances there. Thought garner played well at left back. Strange team selection how does Tim get into any of our teams he’s a championship player at best. Still no right back bought we have needed one for years now. Beto up front he cannot hold his own trousers up awful. Alcaraz not a wide player and always gets his pockets picked resulting in costly errors. Grealish needs to play number ten in a free role full stop when he’s fully fit in the meantime play Dwight left. Sell Beto for whatever we can get right back and striker the most important positions we need and a new central defender as tarks and Keane both too old tarks has been a great signing and servant but the cracks were there to see last season what pace he didn’t already have has gone worse and he will cost us points Unlucky with the penalty but why was he even trying to get to the ball to block it let it go to goalkeeper was going nowhere should of just stood up like keane next to him a yard away upright and hands behind back. Dewsbury hall will be fine but we also need a good strong defensive midfielder with him Tim not good enough neither is garner in there and gueyetoo old now a squad player. New manager yes please and one who is free edin terdic

Ernie Baywood 36 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:13:28

Can't help but feel that people are racing to out-outrage each other on this thread.

When the fixtures were announced pretty much everyone said "going to a promoted team on the first weekend is tough". Yet they're surprised that Leeds (who created zero) had some energy in front of their fans.

This is a side that has struggled in the league for years and has lost numbers since last season given loans were one of the few ways that the club could fill out the squad and still work within PSR issues. We're generally bringing in young players and we know there have been multiple bids for full backs and right midfielders. And the window is still open.

There's "nothing but the best" and then there's plain unreasonable expectations.

It wasn't a good performance, but with plenty of mitigating factors. And it certainly wasn't one of the worst performances that anyone on here has ever seen (as one poster claimed).

Settle in - even if we head in the right direction and make good progress, the next few years will be a bit frustrating.

Mal van Schaick 37 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:17:52

Irrespective of the views on the penalty, how can Tarkowski smirk when he knows what the consequences might be, and it’s not just that penalty decision. He does things in play that he knows are going to draw a decision against him and still smirks. I don’t get it.

Aside from that, as others are saying, starting Garner at left back wtf. We have had since June to sort what should be a defining season in a new stadium, and we start off with a shit show.

Moyes is frustrated, the fans are frustrated and the players looked like they were confused about what was being asked of them.

Some new players, but on the evidence of last nights bluster, it's more of the same from last season.

Paul Smith 38 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:18:01

No fan of Moyes but the fact the first game of the season he has to put a team out with O Brian as right back and Garner as left back is fucked up. It looked like we had a make-shift side out at the end of a long season. Shocking really.

Andrew Ellams 39 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:21:09

The next two weeks could have a huge impact on how long Moyes is at the club. Failure to fill the gaps with new recruits and poor results against Brighton and Wolves and we will be in big trouble come September.

If we have to field that team vs that lot in a months time it could be double figures.

Daniel A Johnson 40 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:22:16

How come other teams sign new players and play them. But we sign players and bench them and hide them away in the reserves?

Craig Walker 41 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:34:22

It doesn’t matter who the manager is or who is on the pitch, one persistent Everton trait is that we only show urgency when going a goal down. We actually started trying to play forward and get balls in the box after going 1 down. We looked frightened to death from the first whistle.

I work with two Leeds fans. Today will be shite.

Mal van Schaick 42 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:36:33

Daniel#40. Good point.

Mark Murphy 43 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:38:12

What was Tarkowski supposed to do?He tried to block a goal bound shot the best he could. He did everything he could to protect his goal and NOT handle the ball by placing his arm deliberately and obviously behind his body. As far as he knew that shot was flying in and he did what a good defender does and tried to stop it.If the ref hadn’t fcuked up we would all have been praising him for a wonder block.It wasn’t Tarkowskis fault we lost that match.

Danny O'Neill 44 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:44:08

Mal @37, with all due respect, that is Tarkowski's natural reaction to any decision, for and against. More disbelief than "smirking". He does it frequently. We all have individual idiosyncrasies.

Derek Knox 45 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:45:22

Still very, very disappointed, about last night. Moyes has to hold his hands up for very poor team selection and again too late substitutions to have any effect. The penalty I thought was harsh and have seen more dubious ones, revoked. V A R ruining the game once more, and a Referee who was incompetent with matching Linesmen.

How Tim gets the nod if fit is beyond me, he was a makeweight in the Lewis Dobbin move, yet seems to get played as a regular. Surely most fans could have picked a better eleven. I appreciate we have a depleted squad and poor recruitment thus far, but no excuses for a lacklustre turn-out like last night !

Sam Hoare 46 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:47:45

Dreadful start. Was Aznou injured? We had a CM at LB, A CB at RB and an ACM at RW. But still there was something else sorely lacking. Belief? Coherence? Quality? Organisation?

That's not a performance that would be helped by Dibling at RW or anyone else for that matter. None of our midfielders seemed able to find each other regularly or create much in the way of possession let alone chances. Alcaraz was patchy, Ndiaye was below his usual standard and it was an underwhelming debut from KDH. Beto had little but what did make its way to him seldom stuck.

The only positive is that we defended pretty well and limited Leeds to few genuine chances.

Moyes will no doubt blame lack of players and he has a point but even so he needs to set up that team better and find ways of getting up the pitch. If performance levels don't improve sharpish we will be bottom of the table before long. TFG fired Juric last season after just 12 matches. Moyes has a little more credit in the bank after good work last season but we know TFG aren't slow to pull the trigger if things aren't working.

But its early days and things can change quickly in football. A signing this week and a win against Brighton and Mansfield will have everyone feeling better. Work to be done.

Jerome Shields 47 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:50:02

Daniel#40

Most of the players signed were young players. Some without Premier League experience. Moyes does not put Young inexperienced players into his selections.We were lucky to see Barry, but that was because Moyes was desperate.

Playing Iroegbunam of forward was never going to work ( not his proper position).I would have swapped his position with Dewsbury Hall's who is more of a play maker.Beto is not a target man he needs the ball played to run on to.Not one such ball did he get.Other forwards had no supply. Even Gana was being given the ball as if he was a playmaker such was the lack of awareness.

Moyes set up shop got it wrong in his selection and the players, particularly in midfield were not coached to any coherent plan geared to their strengths.

Moyes was avoiding a West Ham result, but he got what he deserved.TFG want young players developed for first team selection.What is the use of having staff and facilities costing millions and not doing that.Thst is now the problem at Everton.

Moyes in one step up from a relegation Manager and they want seasoned Professionals ,not youth.TFG want to build the Club and want the team developed and youth to be very much part of that.The average age of the Squad has decreased by 4 days from last years squad.Moyes has to develop young into the first team if he wants to keep his job

Jonathan Tasker 48 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:50:15

I genuinely believe that Kenwright has cursed the club. Nothing will convince me otherwise

Colin Glassar 49 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:51:25

That was very dispiriting. It was like a kick in the teeth followed by a punch in the gut.

After the previous season ending on a high note this felt like we were back to square one. That was a combination of the worst of Benitez/Lampard/Dyche. In fact, it was worse than Dycheball and that’s saying something.

There was no organisation. No fight. No urge to win. It was flat, listless and lifeless. No leaders on or off the pitch. Eleven individuals who look like they’d never played together before. Words fail me.

I didn’t want Moyes back. I hoped he’d be replaced, and thanked, at the end of last season by a manager with imagination and ambition. Moyes looked like a clueless old man last night with his arms folded. He looked quite sad tbh.

The season has just begun so no reason to panic. Let’s see if TFG get their fingers out of their arses and get the 3-4 quality players we need. We can’t afford to give Moyes the excuse of not having enough players, even though he might bench them or leave them out all together.

James Newcombe 50 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:54:55

Beto isn’t really a target man for long punts, I thought we had realised that. As for the Moyes calls, don’t be daft.

Handball is always a tricky call. Surely there should be some intent involved? That wouldn’t have been given against City (as we’ve seen) or Liverpool.

Keith Gleave 51 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:57:56

I made my comments on the live forum after the game. It was an abject performance. wrong team selections, no energy, no pace, no passing, so slow from the back. Kids are told to find space to give the ability to accept a pass.I would disagree with garners score, he was found wanting on many occasions. Ndiaye wasn't in the game. the midfield was totally over run and this was essentially last seasons team.If the performances don't improve, then the jibe of the best stadium in the championship will come to fruition.We deserved nothing out of this game, however, the refereeing was abysmal. It was never a penalty and when the ball is nearly in the crowd but given to have crossed the line is incredible to me.

Robert Tressell 52 Posted 19/08/2025 at 07:59:52

Probably our strangest line up / formation in many years. There were better options. Then such a flat approach to the game - playing right into Leeds hands.

There is very little difference in quality between the two sides player for player, that is true. But Moyes handed the initiative to Leeds.

We are a squad with no width and no pace - with very little quality on the ball.

I’ve been working on the assumption key signings will be made this week and next - as TFG hunt out value from an overheated market.

Let’s hope we have at least two new First XI quality players coming in. Let’s also hope TFG recognise that they’re going to have to play north of £40m sometimes for a player - just as the likes of Brentford do.

Pete Neilson 53 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:01:42

Terrible performance last night, first half especially. Our patched up defence held out until the penalty but shouldn’t have been tested so much against a supposed favourite for relegation.

Leeds looked fitter and more aggressive. In midfield and attack we looked woeful, Tim and Beto were passengers but the others were nothing to shout about. No understanding or partnerships between players, slow and wasteful with the ball and a complete lack of movement attacking.

Elland Road was rocking at the end and no wonder. Much work to be done, started with only one new player, first team quality additions needed.

Ian Bennett 54 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:15:03

Boil it down.

Beto couldn't hold the ball up. He's going to need to up his game, because if defenders have worked out to stop the goal scoring, the big man and us are in trouble.

We had no pace on the wide areas. Only Ndiaye could try and jink his way through.

Alcaraz isn't a right winger. He's a passenger in that position.

We lacked midfield quality. Dwh proved my point on being light weight, and Gana is not someone you want on the ball, creating or taking chances. I love him, but that's not his game.

The defence lacks pace, and had no choice but to start deep against a partisan crowd where the pressure was on first half. Despite the general shitness, Leeds had created little against our unique brand of anti football.

Second half they were pretty much in control of the ball. Players had moved 10-15 yards further, but the creativity was lacking. Some of that is lads in possession, but much is the lack of movement with players resembling over 60s walking football.

I don't know whst they do at finch farm. But training against the opposition press is a mess. We just can't cope on keeping the ball over 2 passes. It resembles something from under 10s. It's why we struggle when the onus is on us.

The game came down to a risky pass into alcaraz from pickford. Rather than play it to a centre back, he's tried to turn and slipped. Leeds create some chances, which ultimately falls to a deflected shot that hits Tarkowski in the arm as he moves into the ball. I thought it was harsh, but it was risk he probably didnt need to take with a strike to the middle of the goal. Tarkowski being rash in the heat of the moment. Yes, he's tried I get that, but thats the game done.

Where's it leave us. Injured players are needed back and quickly. We need a right back option, a central midfielder that's got size and is decent on the ball, and we need some quick width. We also should consider an experienced striker. If beto is a busted flush, then you'll need an alternative.

I do fear a poor start with better fixtures. We cant be 10 games in and rooted to the bottom. The turnover of players has left them short, but this was known in April. Everyone, and I mean everyone needs to pull their finger out. Its not a blame game in individuals, its sorting it out definitively now.

Sunday awaits.

David Bromwell 55 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:15:11

I have seen some poor performances but last nights showing must rank amongst one of the very worst and we simply do not have the players to rectify the problems. We all know where the weaknesses are and until new players come in who are Match Ready we are going to struggle.

We may have a shinny new stadium but at present we certainly don't have a squad of players to grace it and sadly the Manager last night simply highlighted the problem with his team selection and ' game plan '.

Steve Brown 56 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:24:08

Think we missed a few key ratings:

David Moyes - 4

TFG - 3

Angus Kinnear - 1

Here was me suggesting last week that this might be Moyes 2.0 - that was Moyes 1.0. The ratings for TFG and Kinnear show they must shoulder blame, but his selection and tactics did not go well.

Andrew Clare 57 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:25:23

A lot of us were strongly against the appointment of Moyes but he surprised us and did a great job to save us from relegation.Unfortunately now we are seeing exactly why we didn’t want him back.Negative tactics and team selection, an inability to vary tactics and use substitutions effectively- if at all, a fear of failure rather than a confidence to go for the win seems to display itself throughout the team- all as a result of the Moyes mindset.I just hope the Friedkin have high ambitions for us.

Andrew Merrick 58 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:30:29

Even in the cool light of day, it doesn't seem any better than it was, truly awful.

Can any team play without fullbacks?

What was the manager thinking?

OK it may be that we have injuries and therefore a difficult selection, but how has that come about, our lack of quality full backs and striker are astonishing.

But it was nevertheless less the managers job to set us up in a cohesive way, so that we could function, but what Davey served up was a disjointed travesty.

The dissatisfaction amongst the players was palpable, the shape was pulled out at will by Leeds, they turned us over and over, and not one tactical change first half, the most torrid time for team and fans alike.

We came out second half unchanged with half an idea but could just not get going.

Down to Moyes this one, will he learn? I don't think so, he will moan.

The next 2 weeks are crucial to the season, and we just should not be in this position yet again, but here we bloody well are ffs

Alex Carew 59 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:34:47

Utter garbage and if you think anything different then you too are the problem, have we really reached the lows of accepting this garbage?

From the off the team selection was poor. Such a negative approach to the game and it was just head shakingly embarrassing for the first half.

We can go on and on about how the defence defended well, this is also the problem, not once did one of them run into space and deliver a pass. Passes along the back and then back to Pickford putting him under pressure.

Midfield non-existent and it’s hard to know who to blame but the defence didn’t even give them the ball. Any time we did get out wide, we refused to cross, usually ending up with a back pass to the defence and then on to a Pickford hoof.

We should have started with a back 3 and Garner and Ndiaye as wing backs. Filled the midfield with Grealsih as number 10 and two up front, this was Leeds after all. We got totally outplayed by an average side and if it doesn’t change soon we will be counting points by Christmas.

Dont get me started on Beto but then if you don’t give him the ball then what can you expect?

Clive Rogers 60 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:39:09

The big worry was our passing, especially in the first half. We just couldn’t keep possession. Both fullbacks in particular struggled to find a blue shirt. There seemed to be a hole in centre midfield as if nobody was playing there, so we resorted to long punts up the pitch. We don’t have any wingers so had no width. Too many players being played out of position struggled with the jobs they were given. Grealish will struggle if we play him wide left. We are not City. He will hardly see the ball out there with our midfielders.

Lee Robinson 61 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:41:19

That was one of the worst performances I have seen for a long, long time, it was embarrassing actually and I put it totally on Moyes, not only for the set up and tactics but the fact he didn't change anything when we were obviously getting ran all over.

I felt sorry for the players at times, especially the midfield but at the same time we don't help ourselves, why do we ping balls into players in midfield when they are surrounded, long diagonals under no pressure at someone's head or out of play, back to Pickford to give it away for a 50/50, or even the easiest of passes are simply to the wrong foot or behind the player - Leeds pounced on them all.

It seemed to me that the defense were too low, so far apart from the midfield and we were hiding, mainly due to the reasons above, Leeds were winning everything in there and as soon as they did they could break with all the space to run into. There was no out ball up front which we all could see from Beto but also midfield.

We'd have been better playing on the counter and being solid instead of whatever set up that was, 3 in midfield but all too high pressing and nowhere to be seen.

Very very worrying performance, and with a lack of pace in the squad and his lack of faith of the players on the bench this season could be a struggle.

Shout out to O'Brien and Garner, not their best game but they gave 100% and fought for everything given the circumstances.

I say sell Beto his touch is not good enough, get an experienced striker in on loan, Dibling pay the money, Zinchenko and Brownhill for squad depth and experience and pray that gets us going until we can target some proper pace in the squad.

Shaun Parker 62 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:44:32

How can Beto be slated? How many passes did he get or the total bollocks “assits”?He ran the whole game without anything coming his way. Give him the opportunities first and then berate him if he fooks up but you cannot blame a striker if they get 0 service.

Ralph Basnett 63 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:44:50

This is all down to Moyes!! New left back is not ready so we weaken our midfield by taking Garner out and put him in the unfamiliar position of LB?

He has seen enough of Beto to know he is not the answer so plays him?

Not having buckets of money to spend but spunks 6 mill on yet another back-up keeper?

Buys another centre half for the future, the way he is setting us up we may not have one!

Burnley suddenly checking their calendar to see when they play us.

TFG tbh are providing for both clubs, it just seems that the Italians are looking to go forward, we are looking for nothing that we need.

I was fortunate to get tickets for all of the new stadium games but unfortunate that due to ill health did not make it to any so my first trip is this weekend were unless a miracle happens we will be further embarrassed on worldwide TV.

Robert Tressell 64 Posted 19/08/2025 at 08:47:05

TFG have been clear all along that they will recruit for the end of the window - not for the start of the season. That’s the way to find value.

That disadvantages Moyes (who got his excuses in public and early) but Moyes made heavy weather of this game by over complicating the formation etc. I think the performance is largely on him.

We know that Beto, Gueye and others can be effective but they are limited footballers.

I think the game also shows it isn’t straightforward to accommodate all (or even 3 of) of Grealish, Alcaraz, KDH and Ndiaye in the same side. These guys need pace and movement from the full back positions and wing forward,

Sadly, we would have been better with Doucoure last night.

Andrew Ellams 65 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:01:53

So Robert if it isn't straightforward and we can't accommodate all of those players in the same side then surely this is a repeat of the complete mess made by Steve Walsh and Ronald Koeman in 2016.

Lot's of players that can't play together.

Robert Tressell 66 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:05:50

Yes Andrew # 65, that’s what I said last week but I was generally told these are versatile players and it’ll all be fine.

This is only resolved if we bring in pace and athleticism down the flanks - otherwise we will be far too slow and narrow (ie easy to defend against).

Conor McCourt 67 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:10:03

Robert I think last night and this morning we are all pissed off. Unbelievably there are posters hammering TFG and excusing Moyes nearly as badly as he did himself. In his presser he basically said he had no one else to play there. The dogs in the street would have seen that a formation change would have got nearly every player in a comfortable position if not their optimum one.

McNeill must have been caught sleeping with his missus or something.

For you to come on this morning and come out with your usual nonsense about money spent is really infuriating. We need to spend like Brentford? You what?

The same Brentford who lost Mbuemo their best player for nearly £70million and replaced him with a £42 million player. The same Brentford who lost their leader and heartbeat of the side for a pittance and replaced him with a free transfer who is on his Zimmer frame. The same Brentford whose only other player with any class is waiting for his move to Newcastle and has spat his dummy out.

I'm glad your not a Brentford fan as their supporters would have to listen about net spends and championship players yada yada yada.

You know we have kept Branthwaite, signed 6 players already one of which went for £100 million not long ago and is costing us approximately £12 million for the season. By the end of this window we may have spent £150 million net. I wonder what you will harp on about then?

Ian Bennett 68 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:15:06

Robert its a false economy if youre losing 2 or 3 league spots, and a laughing stock on US tours/to corporate sponsors.

Pat Kelly 69 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:22:13

We're going g backwards. New owners, new Board, new DOF, some new players (bench ready), but we're going backwards. What isn't new ? Oh yeah, the old manager. Has anything really changed with that old mindset still in charge?

Denver Daniels 70 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:25:17

Charley is wasted wide right. I hope Moyes doesn't turn him into another Lindstrom. Beto cut an isolated figure up front. He's clearly terrible with his back to goal but we've seen he can be quite effective running the channels so why didn't we do that? I'm not sure what I expected from KDH but it wasn't that. A shit show all round really.

Andrew Ellams 71 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:25:43

Conor, we've signed 6 players and put out the most disjointed, unbalanced Everton team I can remember in a long time on the first day of the season.

The preseason has been a shambles on and off the pitch and will result in a poor start to the season that will put the team on the back foot from then on.

Robert Tressell 72 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:28:31

I’m not sure what I’ve said in this thread to annoy you so much Conor.

I agree Moyes ballsed up.

I hope TFG now spend money to improve the squad.

Controversial?

Dave Lynch 73 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:28:41

People forget.This is the same squad, with additions that Moyes had playing decent football when he arrived.But in retrospect he got us safe,and then reverted to the negative dour tactician that has plagued his whole career.OK we had a few injuries last night but I'm convinced we had enough talent in that squad to go there and win.As bad as we were, they weren't much better.

Andrew Ellams 74 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:32:27

Anybody notice what side Harrison played on when he came on last night, by the way?

Brian Harrison 75 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:34:40

Really disappointing start to the season, someone reckons that we have lost the opening game of the season in the last 5 seasons.

I know we have lost 2 of our regular defenders but it was in attack were there were no injuries is were we struggled. When Moyes came back he made us press high up the pitch, sadly I haven't seen any press in the pre season or last night. We seem very disjointed, the front 3 are 20 yards apart and the attacking midfield are 10 yards adrift of the front 3. We have no pace up front or in midfield so no out ball there. It seemed we set out to pack the defence and limit their chances, but we had no attacking intent at all and only when we went a goal behind with 5 minutes left did that change.

We have struggled all pre season to create many chances and have shots on goal they were as rare as hens teeth, and again last night created next to nothing and had very little shots on or off target. We need to add some pace to this team otherwise we might struggle again this season.

I think our negativity showed just 2 passes before Pickford made that risky pass that ended up with their penalty shout, we had the ball in the centre circle on their side of the pitch, and I think it was tarks was under no pressure and should of looked for an attacking pass with only 6 minutes left to play, instead he plays it 5 yards back to Keane who played it straight back to Pickford. Had we played the ball forward the ref wouldnt have had to make a decision whether it was a penalty or not. I have lost track of the amount of times we have the ball 4 or 5 yards in the opponants half only for us in a couple of passes for it to be back with Pickford.

Jake FitzGerald 76 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:35:19

Just get the bastard transfer window over with, then we know what have to play with. Two points from Brighton and Wolves is going to have to do, then the 2-week break to bed new players in.

I wasn't sold on him before last night but we could really do with a scrapper like John McGinn right now.

Phil Wood 77 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:39:30

Summed it up for me last night when we had the ball at the edge of the Leeds box with less than1 minute left of the first half.

Refused to put the ball in the danger area. Just passed the ball around on the edge until the whistle blew for half-time.Pathetic.

I'm expecting a different mindset against Brighton or we are in big trouble.

Danny O'Neill 78 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:40:15

Most, if not all, are raging about last night. The tactics (if there were any), the formation, and the lethargic performance from the players as a collective. They didn't play as a team.

There isn't much time to ponder over an opening day defeat. The dust will settle, but a lot of looking in the mirror and soul searching is required quickly before Sunday.

Nothing that a win against Brighton can't help lift the mood.

Jimmy Carr 79 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:43:47

Conor (67), it's your post that doesn't make any sense. All Robert has said is we need to accept the going rate for players, as they've done at Brentford.

With any luck, TFG may now put their hands deeper into their pockets after last night's debacle.

I'm not entirely absolving Moyes from blame though. That was a terrible line up. Even I'm beginning to now wonder if there's some disconnect going on behind the scenes at Everton.

Kevin Molloy 80 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:44:25

Brian,

I don't think there's any point to the press when we are playing so deep (forced on us if we are playing Keane)?

Andrew Ellams 81 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:45:44

Brian, we've lost our last 4 opening games now.

Ian Wilkins 82 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:48:38

That performance was a summary of our pre season preparation in a nutshell.Disjointed, lacking appetite, lethargic, unprepared, lacking quality, gaps in key positions, players out of position, lacking squad depth to make changes. It was everything we’ve seen in preparation and can be no surprise. Who’s fault? The squad has not been improved, and is too thin. Key positions have not been addressed ( full backs, wide right, centre midfield, striker). Our additions are either not ready for PL football or all play in the same position The combination of Moyes, Kinnear, TFG in addressing squad need has been an utter mess thus far. Moyes and his coaching staff have failed to properly prepare the squad that he has right now.

James Marshall 83 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:48:58

As Aristotle said, one swallow does not make a summer.

We played with a patched up team on day one. Shit for everyone, and while we were better in the second half, the balance was all wrong as everyone could see.

Garner did his best but he's quite obviously not a left back - fair play to him though, I thought he was our best player under a lot of pressure.

Gana had a shocker, Alcaraz was chasing shadows and looked out of place on the right. It was all square pegs in round holes (again) and we looked like Dyche was still in charge.

It will get better and we will play better - once we get Branthwaite and Myko back we'll have some balance at the back. That'll help the midfield out, and hopefully we'll stop punting the back to the opposition all the time.

There were countless times we were up near their box in possession or with a throw in, and invariably the ball ended up back at the feet of Pickford who either punting it back to Leeds, or gave it to a defender to punt it back to Leeds.

Gana needs to stop trying long balls when we have the ball, and I hope Grealish has a stern word with all of them about how to keep possession.

We have no patience with the ball - if you've got it and there's nowhere to go, just keep it, don't lob it forward with no purpose just because you can't see an opening.

We need to learn to take care of the ball.

Dave Lynch 84 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:51:08

The one thing I do know, through talking to an ex pro is that creative and flair players "hate" having their natural game stifled by negative tactics.They get frustrated and sulk as it's not in their nature to play Conservative safety first football, god help Ndyia and Grealish under this fella.

Conor McCourt 85 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:53:10

Andrew whose fault is that?

Allegedly Southampton wanted £40 million for Dibling. Our manager comes out with our desperation for players and no one wants to join and suddenly £43 million is nowhere near enough.

Last night was clear that we needed a midfielder where games are won and lost. Moyes wanted KDH. He starts as a 10 where we are packed full of them and moves KDH to midfield and suddenly Stach begins to have a field day and is responsible for the goal and could have had 2 more despite not being a threat when Tim was there.

Moyes is happy with OBrien as a right back. Of the ones we are linked with I doubt any would be a huge upgrade on Garner in that position.

We were without Branthwaite. Why? Because Moyes knew he wasn't fit leaving him out for US but rushed him back for the start of the season.

He wanted Grealish and we got him.

The managers job is to manage. If you don't have widemen then don't play with wingers. If you have doubts with the defensive midfield then limit this frailty by playing a back three when you have 3 experienced centre halves already on the pitch. If you need goals put your most likely goalscorer Ndiaye up close to your second most likely goalscorer Beto.

TFG aren't miracle workers. They got rid of all the dead wood everyone wanted. They kept our best players. They have replaced all the players Moyes wanted replacing except for a right winger. We still have 3 or 4 bodies to come in so you would hope it will soon be balanced.

Is it TFG's fault we looked like a Dyche team only without the organisation and couldn't put two passes together all preseason and last night?

Paul Hewitt 86 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:57:23

I see Leon Bailey from Villa has gone Roma on a season loan. Pacy RW, would have been perfect for us.

Dean Johnson 87 Posted 19/08/2025 at 09:57:48

What did Carlo do when James got injured?

Played the same as last night, try not to get beat.

Brian Harrison 88 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:01:15

Andrew 81 sorry I stand corrected it was just someone said 5 but its 4 either way not great to start a season losing. Brighton wont be easy but we need to play on the front foot and not sit back as they will really punish us if we do that. Couldn't understand why we played Grealish wide left, wasn't that his grouch with Guardiola that he couldn't influence games from that position. I thought we would play him centrally in the 10 role, to give us more control.Seeing as neither Branthwaite or Mykolenko will be fit to face Brighton then I am not sure what positional changes to our back 4 Moyes can make. And as I said in my post it was our attacking players that let us down not our defensive players. Seeing in Gana we have an excellent defensive midfield player, why do we seem intent on him becoming an attacking midfield player, and surely wouldnt it be better to let him sit in front of the back 4 to release the rest to get forward and help the forwards..

John Williams 89 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:05:47

If anyone thinks that Dibling is the answer to our problems, they are living in cloud cuckoo land.I watched the Ipswich v Southampton game at the weekend.Both Ashley Young and Dibling came on with 15 mins to go.Young was at it, in defence and attack, Dibling looked a little boy lost, spent most of the time fixing his hairband, also did not appear to have pace.Last night the Blues players seemed to be running withdivers boots on, beaten to nearly every ball in the first half. Evertons midfield needs sorting and we need a striker.

Mike Doyle 90 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:10:37

Kevin & Brian.Its not just the presence of Keane that forces us to play a deep lying defence. None of the others have much pace.This of course means big gaps between defence & midfield and midfield & attack - and an inability to keep the ball.We saw this last night in the first half.I expect that by half time Moyes & co realised that Leeds - for all their energy and effort - aren't that good - so we played a bit higher and looked a little more of a threat (without really threatening).With the personnel available I'm still surprised Moyes didn't set up as 3-5-2 or switch to it at half time.

I'd be interested to hear what Tony Abrahams - who has played the game at a much higher level than me - thinks of this idea.

Stu Gre 91 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:15:37

When we talk about Dibling, I don't think it matters how much we pay - he's too young and inexperienced to get into a Moyes team regularly.

Not the answer under this manager.

Robert Tressell 92 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:18:55

Our new RB won’t be Tchatchoua that Thelwell wanted last summer. He’s just joined Wolves from Verona for €12.5m

Josh Horne 93 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:20:29

I agree Stu, we have already spent a lot of money on players that Moyes won't play.

Why do we keep buying strikers that are not obviously good enough to go straight into the first team? Chermiti was one for the future, now it's Barry.

We've also added a left back who doesn't play even when we have no other left back.

Dibling will not have the immediate impact we desperately need, potential at that price is a luxury we cannot afford.

Conor McCourt 94 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:20:46

John I'm sure your assessment of a player you have watched for 15 minutes who has missed all of preseason will have taken all of us who would love to see him in a blue shirt out of cloud cuckoo land.

He wouldn't have helped us last night and if we sign him we will have to be patient with him, but should he sign he will instantly become the best attacking player we have and I include Jack Grealish in that.

He is a special talent and I suspect TFG will sign someone on loan in that position who will rival him in the short term, someone with pace and different characteristics more akin to a natural wide player, who will be ready to go from the off.

James Marshall 95 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:24:59

I suspect we'll play a lot higher up the pitch when Branthwaite and Myko are back and Grealish is starting.

We'll have better balance and Grealish will get them passing the ball about at the right end.

Things will improve.

Ian Wilkins 96 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:25:32

I agree that adding a 19 year old Dibling to this is not the answer.No offence to the lad, I hope he has a bright future but we need more presence on the pitch right now. It’s not him. We lost what was it, 12 players in the Summer, we’ve thus far spent £72m in filling that void, the price of an Mbueno.

Joe McMahon 97 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:28:41

I know I keep saying this, but the most important signing we missed out on was Thomas Frank. Moyes just hasn't evolved. The starting line up in those positions last night was a disgrace.

Robert Tressell 98 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:30:08

James # 95 you are right. Do we know when both are next available?

Filipe Torres 99 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:30:38

It doesn't matter how the players perform if the refs are against us.Everton is the black sheep of the Premier League and it has been for years.

Forget success, forget European football… we are there for the time being and as long as we are seen as a big enough for Premier League status.

When that perception ends, we will be going down the leagues. Bye bye, Everton!

Keith Gleave 100 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:31:15

Normally I try to find some positives, but last night was just a sh1t show, got to be honest.

Les Callan 101 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:37:46

Can’t wait for this season to end !

Ernie Baywood 102 Posted 19/08/2025 at 10:56:55

James #95 - finally a bit of sanity!

Yes, things will get better.

The number of posters criticising the selection of an out of position player at left back and the benching of Grealish is incredible. Our left back got injured last week and Grealish signed a few days ago without any pre-season. Both decisions were completely expected (albeit you could interchange your personal choice for left back).

That won't always be the case.

We didn't look great, but I watched a lot of football this weekend and it was a common theme. Games were patchy and scruffy as the players get back into things.

People need to calm down. It's reasonable to be disappointed in the performance and the result, but if you weren't livid on Sunday, then there's very little reason to be livid on Monday.

Sam Hoare 103 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:04:09

Supposedly Mykolenko was not far off the match yesterday so might hopefully be available for Brighton. For Branthwaite, I saw a 6 week estimate somewhere which would have returning for Villa or the Anfield derby.

By that time of course the window will be well shut and the transfer business done. That will be a better time to judge the business done by Moyes and Kinnear, which at the moment is looking worryingly second rate.

Dave Abrahams 104 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:09:21

Ernie (102) If you wasn’t livid watching that first forty five minutes then I can’t imagine what would make displeased—possibly that penalty decision? Unless of course you thought it was penalty.

I can guarantee we will improve and get better than that first half performance—I’d say it would be bleedin’ impossible to play any worse than that. Mind you——-that just might be wishful thinking on my part.

Kevin Molloy 105 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:13:56

I remember feeling exhausted just watching that game last night, and I checked the clock and we'd played five minutes. We were so off the pace.

Phillip Warrington 106 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:14:52

Nothing changes: we get screwed by the ref, and we are still needing a decent striker.

We seem to be chasing everything. Sorry but Chermiti, Barry and Beto will be lucky to score double figures between the 3 of them. And what's worse – none of them can hold onto the ball while back up comes, usually they loose the ball which then puts the supporting players out of position.

I really like Grealish and Ndiaye playing wide; we just need a decent striker.

James Fletcher 107 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:21:44

I know he's very young but why the fuck are we not playing our only available LB? Also why did we then insist on constantly trying to play out from the back via the only out of position player on the pitch?

Scott Robinson 108 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:28:44

@John 89. Thanks for sharing the observation about Ashley Young. Letting him go was perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in pre-season. In a team short of cover at the back, and his work rate and professionalism, it was a no-brainer. Instead, we buy players for the future that we never play

Mike Powell 109 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:29:57

I was sick to the stomach watching that none performance,why can't we put two passes together.what was Moyes thinking with that line up. Beto Tim and Alcaraz where abysmal,the rest weren't much better.Garner tried his best, but is no left back, but at least he put a performance in, if we don't get at least four more players in then we are gonna be in deep trouble. Leeds where there for the taking, they aren't very good, yet they where miles better than us, another false dawn, just F,,,off Everton

Geoff Cadman 110 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:32:50

This quote adds insult to injury "Not clear enough evidence to show conclusively that it was hand ball". Chris Kavanagh VAR referee defending his decision on the Rodri hand ball at Goodison. City won the title by a point, and Liverpool lost the league at Goodison Park

Daniel A Johnson 111 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:41:20

Everton first game of the season.

RustyUnder preparedPlayers injuredLacking in numbersNegative sounding manager New signings not ready

Same every f*****g season. We don't hit the ground running, we always land on our face. We surrender our first 5-6 matches getting up to speed whilst others are sprinting. As a club we are at times pathetic.

Good to see the old David Moyes back, angry and spouting negativity out of every pore. The dour Dave days are truly back.

Danny O'Neill 112 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:42:13

I know it's common for the subs to warm up and have a run out at half time, but when I saw Grealish on the pitch, I thought that was him coming on for the second half as clearly, whatever the manager had in mind wasn't working.

Likewise, I thought we might bring Armstrong on for Iroegbunam to play alongside Gana. He may only be 18, but he's not shy on putting his foot on the ball and looking for a pass.

I see no reason why Aznou didn't feature unless it was a late injury or the manager just didn't fancy him starting or not even being in the squad?

As for Dibling, I think that saga will rumble on. Personally, I don't agree with meeting the asking price, otherwise the selling club dictates. The reported £45m is a decent price for a 19 year old with potential, so I don't think Everton should budge if Southampton are haggling over a further £5m.

Sam Hoare 113 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:55:04

I wonder how much money is actually left for transfers? If it's £50m then I think we'd be better off leaving Dibling and going for Agoume (all round midfielder who's apparently available for £20-25m) and Bakwa who are both a little further along in the development than Dibling.

I think a good RW is not as useful if you don't have any control around the middle of the park. I wonder if the dire performance last night will see the transfer committee re-evaluate the priorities?

Bob Parrington 114 Posted 19/08/2025 at 11:56:33

Being pissed off with our limp defensive crap performance vs Leeds Utd, I was chatting over dinner with my Geordie wife and I showed my frustration with the stupid defensive structure by Moyes. For any on here who follow the "stars" she is a Leo (the lion). Very strong minded.She said, why is Everton so defensive minded? The only way to win is to attack, attack attack!. There is no point in defend defend defend because you will generally lose but, at the best, draw.

I rest my case!

Wake up Moyse!!!!!!!

Kevin O'Regan 115 Posted 19/08/2025 at 12:05:18

Sorry to be of a different opinion here, but I thought that Tarks took a huge risk doing what he did and if he had not fallen into the ball (thrown himself) then he should probably get away with it. But he lives at the edge of legal and it's too risky for me. We lost the game cause we were crap. Not because of the ref. Not every peno needs to be a scandal with millions of opinions. It's up to us to play football and try to attack and win the game. Not that rubbish. How the hell do we time and again go from posession at the edge of the oppositions box back to Pickford without having a shot? Patethic.

Nick Page 116 Posted 19/08/2025 at 12:09:33

Fuck off, Everton.

Bill Watson 117 Posted 19/08/2025 at 12:19:21

Most of these player ratings are as ridiculous as the penalty decision.

I was at the game and it was obvious from the start that the formation wasn't working. Moyes did lots of shouting from the touchline but did nothing to change the set up.

Changes should have been made at half time but the first of just two subs, was made in the 73rd minute.

It's just not good enough and the whole club, from top to bottom, needs to get its finger out.

Laurie Hartley 118 Posted 19/08/2025 at 12:19:35

Moyes should have set up 451 from the start. He gave them the run of the midfield in the first half.

The back 4 did OKThe 5 in midfield starting from left to right should have been:-Ndiaye, Grealish, Gueye, Dewsbury-Hall, McNeillBeto up top.

Grealish should have started - if he tired he could have taken him off after 60.

Raymond Fox 119 Posted 19/08/2025 at 12:39:43

Can we get real, it ended up the penalty only lost us a point we never looked like we could win it, they were the better team for most of game.

They were 11/8 to win we were 9/4 thet tells you what neutrals thought before the kick off, thats how it played out.

It was their first game back in the Prem. in front of their mad supporters, plus our team was badly affected by injuries to our defence.

I'm not that suprised we lost the game but it should never have been a penalty, where has common sense gone. He has gone to chest it and its hit his upper arm, he's not deliberately stuck his arm out. There will be plenty of teams struggle at Leeds this season.

There's no doubt we do need some quality reinforcements and the injured players back, when we do we will be much better.

Robert Tressell 120 Posted 19/08/2025 at 12:44:41

Laurie # 118, looks like a sensible formation to me.

The other way was to use McNeil and Garner as wing backs.

Either way McNeil helps to avoid too many square pegs in round holes.

Do we know if McNeil is match fit or not?

Moyes seems to have over-complicated things by excluding him.

Brian Furey 121 Posted 19/08/2025 at 12:57:45

Totally agree with you Raymond Fox @119.We tend to overreact when we win and when we lose.We were missing three of our best defenders.We have no striker to hold the ball up yet we kept kicking him long balls to chase on his own.

Things will improve but we nearly got a draw with a patched up team

Ray Jacques 122 Posted 19/08/2025 at 12:58:13

Garner at left back, not his position and this weakened the midfield and exposed Gana Gueye who at 37 cannot plug the gaps without a midfield partner. Plus we lost Garners ability to actually look forward and pass the ball.

Irogebeum at right back. He is not good enough to play in his preferred position in midfield. Therefore, he is certainly not going to be good enough to play full back.

Why is Patterson still at the club, he has been overlooked by a number of managers? He isn't the replacement for Coleman. We haven't had a decent right back since Seamus had his awful injury a number of years ago. That is shameful.

Calvert Lewin leaves, we all knew he was going. Our main striker is now the guy who was his back up.

Just a few examples of the total lack of planning and organisation that still haunts Everton Football Club off the pitch.

The recruitment and scouting is a shambles.

Stu Gre 123 Posted 19/08/2025 at 13:00:00

Bill 117, changes at half time were essential and anyone that thinks Moyes has learned from his 25 years of management failure just needs to look at this.

There was never a plan to win the match, this was a plan to avoid defeat and that is the Moyes way.

More concerning was how much fitter Leeds looked than us. This could be a very bad season when it should be a new start.

Every other manager knows how Moyes will play, no surprises and no innovation.

Tony Abrahams 124 Posted 19/08/2025 at 13:03:38

I’d have definitely played 4-5-1 Laurie, because it tightens the team up, and also gets players closer to each other

We got out-worked in the first half and then after we had rode the storm and looked the more likely team in the second, we never really had the craft, desire or inclination, to go and really try and win the game.

We are all guilty of talking shite, but people saying Tarkowski should have just let the ball go past him, is naive at best, or just plain ridiculous imo.

What are you doing trying to block deflected shots in your six yard box Jimmy lad? Just get out the way and leave it to your fuckin keeper, you soft twat🤦‍♂️

Robert Tressell 125 Posted 19/08/2025 at 13:05:27

Patterson is still at the club because he’s injured and no-one in their right mind would buy him.

Dave Abrahams 126 Posted 19/08/2025 at 13:12:50

Robert (125) If Patterson had played as badly as O’Brien did last night he’d have got plenty of stick and he’d have offered more going forward than O’Brien did, while his defensive play had him getting daggers off Tarkowski and a bollicking off Pickford very early in the game for his docile movements.

Ajay Gopal 127 Posted 19/08/2025 at 13:16:55

If memory serves me right, this is the list of strikers that Everton have signed in the past about 8 years:

Calvert-LewinOnyekuruCenk TosunMoise KeanJoshua KingRondonMaupayChermitiBetoBroja (loan)Barry

Is there 1 CF there who set our pulse racing? 1 striker who went on to become a legend? Or at least at the level of Watkins, Mbuemo, Wissa, Chris Wood? Not one. The last good striker that wore an Everton shirt was Lukaku. Moyes needs to pull off a coup to get someone in like that. Move heaven and earth, wheel & deal, make some sacrifices in other positions but get in a half decent CF, and we might end up with a half decent season. Otherwise, another year of struggle beckons. (I don't want to write Barry and Chermiti off yet, I hope they come good).

John Graham 128 Posted 19/08/2025 at 13:30:48

Terrible backs to the wall performance.Attacks were almost a non event, mostly from breakaways, then either poor control, poor decision making or poor link up play caused it to fizzle out. Beto and Alcaraz were non existent, Irogebeum tried hard but seemed out of depth, Dewsbury-Hall took too long to get into the game, Ndiaye tried hard but had little support, Gueye spent all of his time trying to break up their attacks.Absolutely no creativity or control in midfield, attacking threat non existent, defenders run ragged Absolutely no cohesion about the team.Need at least two creative centre midfielders. Right winger and a forward who can control the ball.

Nick West 129 Posted 19/08/2025 at 13:31:47

Moyesy's gotta carry the can for that. Playing our best forward passing midfielder, one of the few to play well in pre-season, at left back was a disaster. Cos he's right footed it stymied anything going down the left which meant Ndiaye was starved of the ball. And then we didn't have Garner dictating stuff in the middle. Moyes had to take the risk on the young lad Aznou just to get the balance right. We played the entire game completely lobsided. And then when he brought Grealish on he stuck him in the tumbleweed on the left wing, so he didn't get the ball either! We knew Leeds would be fierce first game back at Elland Rd but he should have risked the kid. And Beto, oh my word, useless doesn't cover it. In 96 mins he not once held the ball up. The only way is up, right?

Tony Abrahams 130 Posted 19/08/2025 at 13:32:55

I don’t think the three central defenders would compliment each other Mike, and although O’Brien, should have no problems covering the right side, considering he can also play fullback, but I’m not sure out of Keane or Tarkowski, would be comfortable on the left.

I suppose Garner and McNeill, could both play wingback, but I believe it’s more of a specialist Position, and that’s why I would have preferred us to play closer together in a 4-5-1 system.

I have never really liked 3-5-2, Mike, but every system should be all about trying to get the most out of the players in your squad, and this definitely never happened last night, unfortunately.

James@83, final sentence, amongst other things this is what top level football should always be about, and even when we do take care of the ball, it is very rare that it’s done with conviction🤷‍♂️unfortunately mate.

Raymond Fox 131 Posted 19/08/2025 at 13:33:01

To be fair to O'Brien, Dave, he is still inexperienced, he's been thrust into the first team out of position.

It highlights what state our squad is in, he was bought as a back up for Branthwaite, I think.

Tony Abrahams 132 Posted 19/08/2025 at 13:47:45

Ajay@127, that post would sober every Evertonian, up that mate.

Ray Said 134 Posted 19/08/2025 at 13:57:55

Poor managementThe defence was 10-15 yards too deep as it always is when Branthwaite doesnt play. If you want a CF to hold the ball up then don't select Beto as his game is having passes ahead of him to challenge for. Play to his strengths or select someone else.Dont play a right footed player at left back.Dont play so many back passes-'fannying around in your own half' invites mistakes as we have seen too often.

Daniel A Johnson 135 Posted 19/08/2025 at 14:07:11

I think it's safe you can write Barry off right now. We were diabolical last night and Moyes was still reluctant to give him game time.

He's had most of pre-season and Moyes still doesn't fancy him. Sums up our buying policy. As for Chermiti… Who? Been here over a year and produced nothing.

Michael Connelly 137 Posted 19/08/2025 at 14:10:38

It's less than 3 months ago since 8 of the same team played brilliantly at Newcastle, and Tarkowski was out injured that day, with O'Brien centre-back and Ashley Young right-back.

Left-back and the lack of a right-sided midfielder the obvious Achilles Heel yesterday. We have a problem if Garner is the best cover for Mykolenko.

Geoff Cadman 138 Posted 19/08/2025 at 14:29:45

Ajay 127 when we were throwing money around like confetti under Koeman we should have signed Woods who went to Burnley for 15 million. Not a big enough name our manager or our owners. Spent the summer chasing Geroud and ended up with nothing. Its been downhill ever since.

Jonathan Tasker 139 Posted 19/08/2025 at 14:32:12

Last night was 100% on MoyesTo put out the white flag against a newly promoted team was a disgrace Last night was as bad as the worst of Dyche

Neil Thomas 140 Posted 19/08/2025 at 14:34:06

Most of our problems last night was nothing to do with selection or management. We simply have not got the numbers, and areas covered yet. Not having a left footed defender totally put us out of balance, because we never had an out ball to our winger. KDH might have looked poor to some of you, but most of the first half he was bypassed because again of the unbalance. Moyes had to put a lot of square pegs in round holes simply because of our lack of recruitment at the moment.plus give credit to Leeds, we were playing a team who hasn’t been in the premiership for two seasons, and who’s crowd and players were always going to be up for it.

George Cumiskey 141 Posted 19/08/2025 at 15:53:36

Do some people on ToffeeWeb actually think Moyes hasn't got a big say in who we sign ? Unbelievable.

Daniel A Johnson 142 Posted 19/08/2025 at 16:00:11

Yes he does George.

But even when he pays £36M for a new striker he's benched and classed as not ready.

Whilst players who are supposedly ready produce a performance against a newly promoted side thst was so bad my eyeballs are still hurting. A few months ago Leeds were in the championship and last night they murdered us all over the pitch from get go.

Simply dreadful. Has moyes ever had a team "ready" for a new season match 1??

Liam Mogan 143 Posted 19/08/2025 at 16:07:31

The only time springs to mind is the 1-0 win over Man Utd, Fellaini header, Daniel. 2012?

Liam Mogan 144 Posted 19/08/2025 at 16:10:31

'He's guilty, just look at his face'

The last time that evidence stood up was in 1564 when Albert Greybeard was hung, drawn and quartered for stealing a sheep in Oswaldtwistle.

Ray Said 145 Posted 19/08/2025 at 16:13:11

My main gripe about Moyes V1 and V2 is the way we play-its mostly horrible to watch.Sometimes its hard, as 'just' a fan who hasnt played the game but has watched many fine Everton teams of the past, to understand the logic of what the highly paid professionals are setting out to achieve.For example; Pickford sets up to take a goal kick and we have a defender either side of him. He passes the ball left then it come back to him then he passes right then its passed back and he kicks it long? What is the aim of that?The defenders have the ball and Gana runs back 20 yards so the defender can use him as a wall to get the ball back-what is the aim of that?We have the ball on the wing in the oppositions half then its passed back into midfield and then to defence and then all the way back to the goalie so he can kick it back to the place the ball started from-again what is the aim of that?I am in my late 60's now so the Mighty Blues are stuck with me and I with them but this type of football is not going to attract many youngsters in the face of much competition from other teams and sports.

Frank Thomas 146 Posted 19/08/2025 at 16:13:50

Sorry Neil (140) have to disagreelast night was totally down to Moyes.

Last season we were in the top 5 for defences under Moyes.

This involved Garner covering O'Brien and Ndiaye covering Mykolenko.

Yes Mylenko was injured but Moyes completely destroyed the right wing by not having Garner and Lindstron in front of O'Brien and subsequently most of the attacks started on the right. This caused Hall to pull back into defence to try and help Jake and Tim meaning, we had NO momentum in attack.

I think the aim was to get a point by staying deep and supporting the defence in the first half and try using breakaways to sneak 3 points in the 2nd half.

He reversed that decision in the 2nd half urging the players to move forward keep possession, this was working and then when Ndiaye was causing real havoc needing 4 players around him at times and starting to bond with garner he brings on Grealish moving Ndiaye to the right.

To compound that Tim who I though had the best game I have seen him play was fighting tooth and nail for the ball was subbed instead of Gueye.

Look back in every game that Gueye played last season under Moyes he was subbed by Tim because Gueye can no longer run for 90mins. In that game he just about stop running about the 88 minute his tank was empty.

I have quoted in past posts that Moyes said we need a right full back and a right winger. To make things worst we now have three players whose best position is identical Ndiaye, Alcaraz and Grealish and I don't see any signs that they could work together.

With Hill Dickinson any manager may now have as much as £40 to £100M + rewards for finishing higher in cups and the league to spend every year.

So Moyes you choose and buy 2 quality players rather that 4 damp squids.

Buy wisely or get your CV ready for January explaining how you spent millions and produced such a diobolical showings.

Robert Tressell 147 Posted 19/08/2025 at 16:14:22

Which striker have Everton bought for £36m Daniel. Do you mean Barry who was bought for £27m?

Ajax, #127, that is a shocking list of strikers. Worth noting that Kean has gone on to have (as seemed likely) a very decent career away from chaotic Everton. Also worth noting that for 5 of the 8 years we were spending as though we’d been relegated - which hinders you a wee bit in the transfer market.

Dave # 126, yes O’Brien played poorly last night. And hopefully despite being a game performer there late last season (when critically Branthwaite was fit) he should not be considered a solution for RB. He’s a stop gap. We need a proper RB (or two).

Frank Thomas 148 Posted 19/08/2025 at 16:19:15

PLEASE do not buy Bissouma yet another midfielder. If we do Thomas Frank will say 'thanks' adding another £35M and will go and buy Kubo.

George Cumiskey 149 Posted 19/08/2025 at 16:32:29

I've said it before Moyes teams never attack in numbers so when a player does burst forward he finds himself alone with nobody to pass to and invariably has to stop and pass the ball back.

Conor McCourt 150 Posted 19/08/2025 at 17:00:17

Moyes gets a lot of latitude because he creates it. We all know our squad isn't perfect but we only need another four signings to be really competitive.

What amazes me how some already make their mind up before the game and claim to be the voice of reason after while those who are legitimately angry with the tactical element are seen as hysterical. Well there are posters like Kevin Molloy who are big advocates of Moyes and judging from Kevin's posts he was annoyed and wasn't happy with the tactical set up (don't wish to speak for Kevin but that's the inference I get)

I wanted a 352 last night as I felt it best with the personnel available. Moyes doesn't like that system, no problem.

So we haven't got anyone wide right so he plays Charly who hasn't had one good game there. Yet the fella he plays on the left ahead of two other players, who have played there for large chunks of their career, plays for his country wide right and moreover he does it with aplomb.

Now with a dearth of wingers you don't think it's strange for those two on the bench, one gets a brief cameo while the other sat watching Coronation Street all night. Our most creative player and scorer of important and out of nothing goals during the bad years was nowhere to be seen when we needed those very traits.

Now the owners are to blame. They are doing their best with the finances they can afford with PSR and juggling the thin line of trying to make a squad competitive for the here and now with also one that is sustainable for the future. They will be judged on the 1st September like Mr Hammond asked.

We have an established centre forward (not of their doing) so they have complimented him with an exciting young striker who will hopefully usurp once he gets to grip with the league. We tried for Delap who was tried and tested in our price range, he chose elsewhere but at least we asked the question.

We have an established left back so we bought an exciting young player with the same mantra as before whom the giants Bayern Munich didn't want to let go.

We have quite a young midfield except for Gana so we have bought a Premier League quality midfielder and will most likely bring one more. The first is to provide the guille which we lack in midfield while the other is likely to be an energetic destroyer with nous.

We locked quality in the number ten role so we took one of the leagues most coveted players to fill the void and bought a young player to learn from and hopefully provide more energy and more goal threat when required.

TFG and the recruitment department have clearly been structured in their transfer strategy. They have a few pieces to go in central midfield, right back and especially wide right (maybe one buy, one loan). They have backed their manager and are going about their business in a very methodical, sustainable way.

Moyes like every other manager bar about six or seven clubs faced challenges this weekend. Moyes failed miserably to deal with those challenges and it is not unreasonable to say so.

Kevin Molloy 151 Posted 19/08/2025 at 17:25:15

Conor, we'll have to agree to disagree.

My view is that we had a very fragile squad last season that Moyes managed to squeeze a number of unlikely victories out of. It was top-heavy with old players needing to be replaced, and also a big overhaul of the rest, just to stand still.

We lost three ever-presents from last season: Doucoure, Harrison and Young, and also Calvert-Lewin walked. At the moment, Dewsbury-Hall, Barry and Grealish are not providing the same service (no doubt that will change as we move forward).

So we've got a weaker squad in my view, plus injuries to crucial players like Branthwaite and Mykolenko. We had Keane playing, and no proper full-backs. So had to play deep all night. On top of that, for whatever reason, we have Beto, McNeil and Alcaraz all out of form. To be fair to Moyes (as I like to be), he's been sounding an alarm now for months that we needed an overhaul to be ready for the new season. And the current recruitment is way short. And high risk.

We have critical needs, the whole right flank, and so have about five players playing out of position to compensate for the lack. It's farcical.

And whilst we've been 'driving hard bargains', half our targets have gone elsewhere, and other teams are now interested in our current ones (Palace).

I can't really get too excited about Moyes's part in last night, we were a few minutes away from an away draw, having banged in a load of square objects into round holes.

What really ticks me off is the new recruitment team. Moyes has gone public with his concerns, and they are still pissing around (like they know best). It's infuriating.

Tommy Carter 152 Posted 19/08/2025 at 17:32:47

Two of our signings have been brought in and cannot play first-team football. That being Barry and Aznou.

How on earth has that been allowed to happen?

Robert Tressell 153 Posted 19/08/2025 at 17:59:08

I think a few things are true:

1. Moyes ballsed up last night and he's been irritatingly getting his excuses in nice and early all through the last week or so. I think he's a good fit for the club but he's reminding us that he can drain the life out of things too.

2. Moyes is right that we don't have all the players yet and - my view - we currently have a firmly Bottom 10 squad overall (albeit with a few Top 10 quality players).

3. TFG have not so far “backed” Moyes in the transfer market unless you set your sights very low indeed (given the state of our squad after years and years of negative investment and departures).

4. TFG have said (fairly) judge them on the close of the window - so they may yet back Moyes to a point. It is possible, with a really good next week or two, that we could finish the window with the 9th best squad and close the gap with crumbling Villa in 8th.

5. Whatever the quality of our squad, Moyes is tasked with getting us up the table, improving the playing style, and going hard in the cups. If we recruit better, pick up momentum, and other teams underperform, we could yet make Europe this season.

Conor McCourt 154 Posted 19/08/2025 at 18:03:10

Sorry to infer wrongly, Kevin.

Yes, it seems like we disagree on quite a lot.

Firstly, to your point about Young being an ever-present. Under Moyes, he was virtually non-existent. One of the key reasons we performed so well under Moyes was that he swapped Young for O'Brien which meant we could go from defence to attack. With Young, it was one or the other and mostly defence as we set up under Dyche.

The amount of times Harrison and Lindstrøm had no support and whipped hopeful balls into the box when faced with 2 opponents only to see Young arriving in the picture as the cross drifted harmlessly wide. With O'Brien there is also always an outlet which means teams couldn't defend compact as the opponent would have to engage.

I am not slating Young but we miss him like a hole in the head and Moyes knew it from the day he walked through the door. It was a key factor in our upturn in form.

You also mention the injury to Branthwaite. There was a majority of dissenting voices (me included) when Dyche rushed him back early. Interesting the narrative when Moyes done similar. Our recruitment team have taken that hit.

Also you mention a lot of players playing out of position...do you not think it would be a good idea to put them in position? Maybe that explains why Charly is out of form? No. You put Jarrad in goal I don't think he will perform to the same level?

I gave Moyes his flowers for his impressive start. Likewise the performances, decisions, conduct, coaching, preparation and demeanour since the start of preseason is not what I would expect from any Everton manager. His antics have no doubt hindered the very process he wants speeded up and I believe were of self-interest and not for the good of Everton.

Dave Abrahams 155 Posted 19/08/2025 at 18:06:03

Raymond (131),

To be honest, O'Brien has always played like he is inexperienced, no matter what position he has played.

But he gets plenty of praise on here, I just don't see where or how he merits it.

Sam Hoare 156 Posted 19/08/2025 at 18:14:56

That sounds mostly fair Robert but then what constitutes back the manager? A couple of months ago I think most of us thought that if we had a net spend around the £90-100M that would be pretty healthy.

So far, it's been about £80M and that's not including a huge wage commitment to Grealish.

Are we moving the goalposts because the market has seemed quite inflated this summer, especially for wingers?

I would say so far that TFG have backed the manager to a degree but we have perhaps not prioritised the right positions or pulled in enough freebies or loan type signings to help pad out the squad.

Though I'm not his biggest fan, I wonder if we had taken Kyle Walker-Peters, who could have played left-back or right-back last night, that might have helped with a more balanced display?

There's an equilibrium to be struck of course between quality and pragmatism but I don't know if the committee have got it quite right so far.

Conor McCourt 157 Posted 19/08/2025 at 18:16:46

Robert quick question- how has he not been backed? I will give you a hypothetical to see if that changes anything. I have listed the argument above to validate my case.

So Moyes doesn't open his mouth preseason. You can see he wanted Barry, Grealish, KDH and Charly from words and role. Now Southampton accept our £43M bid for Dibling. Our spending goes to £111M with a £12M package for our marquee signing to boot.

Would you say that a manager had been backed with 2 weeks remaining to make possibly one more signing and at least 2 more loan or minimal acquisitions? Considering we would have made more acquisitions outside of the promoted teams?

Sam, he's a dreadful player defensively, a slight mark up from Patterson. If TFG are getting pelters from Anzou, it would be deafening once Blues would see him exposed.

Sorry, Sam, is it £80M excluding Grealish?

Andy Meighan 158 Posted 19/08/2025 at 19:15:15

This isn't going to better any time soon, so we are going to have to suck it up. This season is going to be another long hard slog with probably a bottom 7 or 8 finish.

Anyone thinking we could be challenging for Europe is living on another planet, pre-season and last night's debacle proved that. The worrying thing for me last night was that our players didn't look fit, they looked jaded after 30 minutes.

Sean Kelly 159 Posted 19/08/2025 at 19:34:08

What's the story with Aznou?

Has he thrown the toys out of the pram?

Sam Hoare 160 Posted 19/08/2025 at 19:44:03

Conor, I’m not a fan of KWP but I think he’s better than Patterson and would at least have allowed us to play a natural full back, which in turn would have allowed Garner to play in the middle and Iroegbunam on the bench. Or find one of the many other affordable full backs who might have been able to contribute something. I liked Tete more than you did I recall. The point, which I think you agree with, being that TFG have spent money but I’m not sure they’ve spent it all in the right areas or on the right players.

Yes I think it’s around £80m excluding Grealish.

Conor McCourt 161 Posted 19/08/2025 at 19:58:00

Sam I like Robert would have loved Mukiele. I have suggested him since his Leverkusen loan ended as think he's perfectly suited for the rigours of the Prem. He also covers centre back. I nearly had a stroke when I seen that Sunderland got him for £9.5 million up front with £2.5 on add ons

Robert Tressell 162 Posted 19/08/2025 at 20:09:24

Sorry, Conor - I see you've asked the Q here that I've just answered on another thread but indirectly.

If the question is "have TFG backed the manager" then I would say "to do what?"

Q. backed to avoid relegation?A. yes. They have helped to correct nearly 5 years of extreme negative investment.

Q. backed to finish in the top 10?A. as things stand Transfermarkt ranks us as having the 15th best squad, so that's open to debate. Certainly we have a chance. But Moyes hasn't been given one of the best 10 squads (yet) so hard to argue he's been "backed" to finish top 10.

Q. qualify for Europe (7th place?)A. not really no. We would have to massively overperform. It doesn't mean we won't do it - but I don't think you can say we have "backed the manager" by providing a squad that should qualify for Europe.

Q. qualify for the Champions League?A. no, we're absolutely miles adrift still.

Q. win the title?A. nope.

So that's why I say TFG have only "backed the manager" if you set your sights very low.

Sam Hoare 163 Posted 19/08/2025 at 20:19:47

Conor, yes Mukiele for less than £10m would seem a bargain. I also think Leeds did well to pick up Gudmundsson for a similar price on the left.

I like the idea of Aznou but if Moyes is not prepared to play him then we really could have used another full back before the season started. Easier to say than do perhaps but just feels to me like priorities were askew.

Conor McCourt 164 Posted 19/08/2025 at 20:36:42

Robert so he hasn't been backed because Transfer markt has set TFG an impossible task of undoing the last few years of squad depletion in one fell swoop?

My personal view is that he's been overly backed in terms of how most modern clubs operate. I think and hope by the end of this window the financial outlay will follow suit.

I know it sounds like I'm a fan of TFG but I really wasn't before this window. I don't know how good Anzou for example will do but I certainly like the strategy and every move seems like a deliberate piece of the jigsaw.

The next four pieces will become clear when others have made their minds up and are trickier than the deals we have done where the player, selling club or both have made the deals easier. Now we are in the territory of where clubs have to play ball, where loanees are made available and players who thought twice might be in danger of being left on the shelf.

It's a massive few weeks for us.

Robert Tressell 165 Posted 19/08/2025 at 20:44:59

Conor, I have answered your Q and no I don’t agree with your summary.

Let me ask a question then.

What do you think TFG have backed Moyes to do?

What do you think this Everton squad should achieve (given the quality of 19 other clubs) and why?

Mike Gaynes 166 Posted 19/08/2025 at 21:23:11

Robert, jumping in on the debate between you and Conor, I believe TFG are backing Moyes to the limitof what PSR will allow.

Since we don't know what that limit is, I'd say any debate about what constitutes "backing" is purely speculative... and frankly rather pointless.

Is Moyes getting everything he (and we) would like? No, of course not.

Is he getting everything TFG can give him without landing us back in trouble? We have no way of knowing.

But if I was a betting man, I'd wager on them trying to put the best product on the pitch that they possibly can within the financial limit imposed by PSR.

Conor McCourt 167 Posted 19/08/2025 at 21:23:53

Robert in all honesty I can't answer that until the window shuts.

Also Robert I don't agree with some of the targets signed but I'm not Moyes.He wanted a creative midfield player and a defensive shield. I would have wanted one like Luiz so there was no need for a 6 when you play with two 8's.

Then the £25 or so million could have been used on a top right back to try and emulate Coleman..

But I think Moyes is identifying and getting the players he wants one by one. He is happy with the back four and keeper. He wants a completely new midfield three and feels Garner, Gueye (most likely to start but different to KDH), Tim and Charly as back ups.

He is happy with Ndiaye where Grealish and McNeill are back ups but will want 2 for the other side.

I think TFG thought Beto was solid with Barry to takeover but both seem in conflict with regards to Beto and Moyes may want him sold or an experienced 3rd striker. He doesn't rate Chermiti.

Normally position in the table comes down to balance etc but I think we must be realistically be striving for top ten with the hope (unrealistic I know) of breaking into Europe.

However with the new stadium I would expect we will maybe finish somewhere similar to last season as we make the place home.

Essentially I want the squad to be better not just for the now but to build for the future, so that we can soon compete for Europe and challenge for the odd trophy.. I accept Rome wasn't built in a day but would be pleased if we went on the right path.

Oliver Molloy 168 Posted 19/08/2025 at 21:25:03

A Leeds supporting friend was winding me up today with all sorts but he did say something that I think may be true.

He reckons the players we have signed, no other club were interested in - and I think he could be right which just shows how far Everton have fallen.

Reported tonight that another target Luiz will sign for Forest.Big shiny new ground counts for nothing up to now !

Robert Tressell 169 Posted 19/08/2025 at 21:55:44

Mike, Dyche was backed to the limits of PSR. It didn’t mean he was backed to achieve anything - which is surely the whole point of the competition?

And Conor, that’s a bit of a cop out. By saying Moyes has been backed it gives the impression to be honest that you think he’s been given a squad that’s up there with those genuinely competing for a top 6 / 7 spot like Spurs and Newcastle, say.

If that’s not what you think then by all means say so. Obviously things can change in the next two weeks but presumably you have a sense of where we are now?

Conor McCourt 170 Posted 19/08/2025 at 22:29:38

Bizarre response Robert. Did you read what I said. Squad like Newcastle?

I asked you that question in all sincerity to see if you felt that Moyes wanted different players? That perhaps Kinnear wanted KDH and Moyes didn't? Or you were expecting £200 million etc. I couldn't understand why you felt he wasn't backed.

Judging by your response seems like your question was a bit of a stitch up? If we sign no one else then TFG will have let Moyes down, if we sign Lewandowski, Salah and Rodri then obviously I'm going to have much higher expectations. and expect top six.

As I told you last season when you insisted we only had a relegation squad and I proffered that we should finish around twelfth with this squad. Back then transfer markt didn't help you much. This season will be harder with no Goodison but with the right acquisitions in a normal season we should be looking at between 8th at the top end and twelfth at the bottom end but tenth would be what I would expect. But the reality is that this is a unique season for us which clearly muddies the waters.

Alan McGuffog 171 Posted 19/08/2025 at 22:44:26

Wolves just signed a very speedy defender for about £10 million. Of course he may be shite but it shows there are players out there if we could get our collective thumbs out of our collective arses. But never mind eh, another year making the numbers up !

Robert Tressell 172 Posted 19/08/2025 at 22:53:27

Conor, okay so he’s been backed in your view to finish about 10th to 12th. I got distracted by a Tesco delivery and didn’t read that bit.

That’s pretty much what I said in response to you #162.

So unlikely as it sounds, we agree?!

Robert Tressell 173 Posted 19/08/2025 at 22:54:38

Yes Alan - exactly the same defender Thelwell tried to sign this time last year. Hope he turns out rubbish.

Conor McCourt 174 Posted 19/08/2025 at 23:07:43

Robert as you often say every little penny helps!!

Mike Gaynes 175 Posted 19/08/2025 at 23:14:01

Alan #171, we just signed a speedy defender too, one with a pedigree from Bayern and Barcelona, and people are complaining he's "not ready" so what makes you think the responses will change?

Robert, whaa???

"Dyche was backed to the limits of PSR."

I think you just swerved off the road with that one.

Dyche isn't remotely relevant. He worked for the new ownership for exactly seven days during a transfer window. They never had either time or PSR space to "back" him on anything.

Shaking my head on that one.